'Ukraina' no land at all

Andrew said...
Andrei: Ukrainians who were people whose history had been for the most part as subjects not of Moscow but of the Austro Hungarian Empire Ukrainians didn't exist in Austria-Hungary either. The Austrians called their part of Russia, known as Galacia, by the name Ruthenia, and the inhbaitants Ruthenians, which was simply another way of saying Russian. The two major ethnic political parties were the Old Ruthenian and Ruthenian National Democrats. The people themselves said they spoke a language called "Rusyn" and called themselves "Russkij". Being simple peasants, their form of Russian never developed by that time any modern technical vocabularly, since through 1939, the inhabitants of the towns and cities in the area of Galacia, Volhynia, Bukovina, and Podolia were primarily Poles, Germans, Romanians, and Jews and these were the people who conducted commerce, wrote literature and newspapers, and attended universities..

Anonymous Andrei said... Andrew, I know all that, it's a blog comment not a historical essay and needs to be kept as simple as possible - a sketch.

Nobody identified themselves as Ukrainian until after the First World War probably. The literary Ukrainian language was developed in the Austro Hungarian empire in the 1870s or so based on the Galician dialect with a lot of Polish vocabulary. In the real world of course people speak neither standard Russian nor standard Ukrainian and communicate with each other just fine until agitators whisper poison into their ears to make them fight each other in order to conquer them
10 May, 2014 05:59

Moon of Alabama Maj 2014

It Was All Planned at Yalta

In September 2013, one of Ukraine´s richest oligarchs, Viktor Pinchuk, paid for an elite strategic conference on Ukraine´s future that was held in the same Palace in Yalta, Crimea, where Roosevelt, Stalin and Churchill met to decide the future of Europe in 1945. The Economist, one of the elite media reporting on what it called a 'display of fierce diplomacy', stated that: 'The future of Ukraine, a country of 48m people, and of Europe was being decided in real time.'

Läs mer bredvid spalten här - samt på Diana Johnstone´s original artikel: NATO leaders are currently acting out a deliberate charade in Europe, designed to reconstruct an Iron Curtain between Russia and the West.


Tightening the U.S. Grip on Western Europe Washington´s Iron Curtain in Ukraine

by DIANA JOHNSTONE

NATO leaders are currently acting out a deliberate charade in Europe, designed to reconstruct an Iron Curtain between Russia and the West.

Ukraine my friend, was the lands once held by the Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth which had an Eastern Slavic, predominantly population and corresponds to the Western Parts of the modern Nation.
They lost it during a cossack rebellion in 1649 or so where upon the population turned to Muscovy. Eastern Ukraine was never part of these lands which at its height extended to Kiev.
Nor was Odessa or Crimea

Modern Ukraine was born during the Soviet Polish War and the Russian Civil War When the Bolsheviks added Little Russia and New Russia to the Western Lands and called the new entity Ukraine equating the Little Russians subjects of the Tsar with Ukrainians who were people whose history had been for the most part as subjects not of Moscow but of the Austro Hungarian Empire. It was a maneuver to undermine the recreated Nation of Poland's ambition to recreate the Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth. Most of Ukraine has been part of Russia for the best part of three hundred years - Three Western Provinces were added after WW2 two of which came from Poland and One from Romania - this was done because of horrors that occurred during that war, ethnic cleansing against the Poles who lived there which meant that they could not be easily be reintegrated into Poland and Romania without much civil disorder and bloodshed. Poland and Romania were compensated by Land taken from Germany and Hungary respectively and population transfers occurred to make their populations of all three more homogenous.

This was worked out by Churchill Roosevelt and Stalin and considered by all three as the best of a lot of very bad options to bring peace to the region which ws not fully restored until well into the 1950s

* * * Anon Andrew said... Anon: but did they (die Russen) ever apologize to the 'Ukrainians' in Ukraine for forcing them into the Sowjetunion? The Russians didn't "force" Ukrainians to be part of the Soviet Union.
(1) Ukraine (except Galacia) was always part of Russian Empire since the Cossack revolt separated the land from Poland, who had conquered it from the Mongols, who had conquered it from the Russians..
(2) Ukrainians as a distinct ehtnonym are a made up fairy-tale people. At the time the Soviet Union was founded, no one had ever heard of Ukrainians. The word does not exist in any early 1900's Encyclopedia describing the peoples of the world, no Atlas showed a land called Ukraine, and there were no Department's of Ukrainian Studies at a university, because of course, there was nothing to study. The land of Ukraine was inhabitated by people who called themselves Russkij, as opposed to the people over by the Volga and Don who called themselves Rosskij. The other name they called themselves was Kazak = Cossack, something that the Rosskij living along the Don and Terek and Volga and elsewhere also called themselves.
(3) They spoke a language mutually intelligble with standard Russian and worshipepd in the Russian Orthodox Church using Church Slavonic. Even the Greek Catholics among them, when they broke away from Rome in America and returned to Orthodoxy went and founded a Church call the American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Catholic Church (those on the south side of the Carpathians) and another Church called the Russian Orthodox Church in America (those from the north side of the Carpathians). You might notice the absence of the word Ukrainian. Even those from the center of "Ukrainianism" who had migrated to America didn't know they were supposed to be Ukrainians as late as 1940.

It would be closer to the truth to say that the Soviet Union latched onto the Galacian project of the Austrian and German General Staff, and invented a fiction called the Ukrainians SSR out of the German's project to detach south west Russia from Russia and attach it to the German Empire. They attached to it all manner of lands from the southwest of the Russian Empire that had never been united as a governing unit before. They then began promoting the westernmost dialects the people in this area used that were most heavily influenced by Polish and German loanwords as some sort of new language that they called Ukrainian and they made the children have to learn it in school across the whole region. Gradually such practices created an entity and ehtnonymic identiy called Ukrainian, a process which was greatly accelerated when Stalin annexed Galacia and Volhynia to Ukraine in 1939/1945.

So rather than blame the Soviet Union of including the Ukraine, you really ought to praise it for nursing the bastard monstrosity to life after the Germans abandoned it.


The participants included Bill and Hillary Clinton, former CIA head General David Petraeus, former U.S. Treasury secretary Lawrence Summers, former World Bank head Robert Zoellick, Swedish foreign minister Carl Bildt, Shimon Peres, Tony Blair, Gerhard Schröder, Dominique Strauss-Kahn (!), Mario Monti, Lithuanian president Dalia Grybauskaite, and Poland´s influential foreign minister Radek Sikorski. Both President Viktor Yanukovych, deposed five months later, and his recently elected successor Petro Poroshenko were present. Former U.S. energy secretary Bill Richardson was there to talk about the shale-gas revolution which the United States hopes to use to weaken Russia by substituting fracking for Russia´s natural gas reserves. The center of discussion was the 'Deep and Comprehensive Free Trade Agreement' (DCFTA) between Ukraine and the European Union, and the prospect of Ukraine´s integration with the West. The general tone was euphoria over the prospect of breaking Ukraine´s ties with Russia in favor of the West.